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Hang gliding general :: Xterra Rack #2.5

26 April, 2017 - 02:47
Author: Jason
Subject: Xterra Rack #2.5
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:47 pm (GMT -8)

my old thread is too old to edit...so i started a new one

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29283&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I bent a t2c tube last week, and then went to CA for work. My old man has a few old tubes laying around, so mix one part wills, a few parts sensor, and one attack tube with some u bolts and i have boosted my carrying capacity.

Still need to put some padding on it, and cover the nuts, but this is looking good, i just did a dip off the attack tube, and the sensor tube, so that put over 80 lbs on each cantelever end..should be more than enough to support a glider

also put some shorter ones on the bottom to create a little basket, now i can store small thin things beneath the gliders or whatever else ends up there

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Hang & Para PR Video?

26 April, 2017 - 02:35
Author: AIRTHUG
Subject: Re: Hang & Para PR Video?
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:35 pm (GMT -8)

ChattaroyMan wrote: I'd love to have a good one, maybe with some drone views and on-glider views that imparted a feel for what a typical launch and setup area looked like, the space required to complete a launch in little to no wind for both hangs and paras, etc.

Link

or

Link

or
http://vimeo.com/79017537 (sorry, can't embed Vimeo here AFAIK)
_________________
Shut up and fly.

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: carbiner

26 April, 2017 - 02:17
Author: DMarley
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:17 pm (GMT -8)

A good steel 'biner is the strongest part of the system by many orders of magnitude, and because it is steel, it will not fatigue each cycle as all the rest of the aluminum that is holding up that loop and 'biner. Just some food for thought. But sure, if the 'biner is not a good grade of steel, has notches or grooves worn into it, or the pin is bent, the lock is rough, it's not color coordinated any longer, then by all means.
If it was mine and after replacing it, I'd then use my 7-ton, 100hp diesel 4x4 tractor to load-test the sucker by pulling out some tree stumps with it. Judging by all the big steel chains and shackles I've used previously to do just that nearly every spring-time, I'd say the old 'biner will have at least a few stump-pulls left in her.

In fact, the recent wind storm following a big multi-day rain storm blew over a couple of +100 ft pine trees. Yeah, I know, they're only pine trees. But they're blown only half-way down. We'll see if an old hangy 'biner can remove the stump and the rest of the tree in, ok, let's be fair, two big pulls. One for the stump, one for the trunk. I'm bettin' it can. Just my excuse for purchasing a new, color-coordinated super-duper shiny 'biner! Stay tuned...but don't hold your breath..... it's almost as wet as the ocean out here, and the ground's gotta dry up more for ol' Big Blue to be fired up and not sink into the mud too much.

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Hang & Para PR Video?

26 April, 2017 - 01:57
Author: ChattaroyMan
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:57 pm (GMT -8)

flybop wrote: Steve, I think this is a great idea for a video to show to landowners. It does seem that that this is a specific goal that will require a dedicated production to achieve.

Perhaps we can start a funding program to raise some money to produce this type of video. If something like this was available to all of us to have on our laptops it would be a huge help with landowner relations.

Is there anyone here with video production expertise...?

I like where you're going with this .... We do have a video maker here in Spokane who'd like to do some shooting of our flying. Perhaps we can at least make a go at a video that, if not something very slick, could be used as a trial balloon that gives another production group a good idea of what we'd like to produce. I'll also wait and see who my respond to your question. Thanks Don
_________________
Steve Baran � U2 160 � Chattaroy, WA - USA � USHPA# 16529 � www.centeroflift.org

Hang gliding general :: RE: Carbon or Aluminum outer leading edges - Stiffer the better?

26 April, 2017 - 01:46
Author: aeroexperiments
Subject: yaw-roll oscillations
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:46 pm (GMT -8)

* Interesting comments Ryan, always good to hear your detailed observations

* I think the topic of yaw-roll oscillations in hang gliders is generally not well understood

* A pure yaw oscillation (say as would be set off if you brushed a treetop with your wingtip or something) will always damp out very quickly, after just a few oscillations. Because the "weathervane effect" (aka yaw stability or directional stability) is so powerful. You may be right that wing twist is one of the factors contributing to this.

* It's the Dutch-roll-ish kind oscillation that's a mix of yaw and roll that is more complex and may tend keep going all by itself with no pilot input

* This oscillation is fundamentally different than true Dutch roll in a conventional airplane, where dihedral (or the dihedral-like effect generated by wing sweep) generally plays a role. In contrast, the yaw-roll oscillations we see in hang gliders are most pronounced with the bar well pulled in, where it can be shown that the glider's slip-roll coupling is dominated by anhedral.

* It's been my personal experience that these oscillations are most pronounced with the VG loose, not tight. That comment is based partly on experience with unwanted oscillations during aerotowing of my old kingposted Laminar, and Airborne Blade, and partly on my experiences when intentionally trying to set up a self-sustaining yaw-roll oscillation on various gliders. it's interesting to me that you find that unwanted yaw-roll oscillations are most common with the VG around 3/4 tight-- that surprises me. Maybe that has to do with a tendency for a pilot to over-react/ over-control in reaction to adverse yaw which does tend to be more pronounced with the VG tight. Not such a problem on aerotow because on aerotow we're taught very specifically not to try to control yaw. Anyway my observation is that gliders are most prone to a self-sustaining yaw-roll oscillation when the VG is loose. Also on squirrely gliders that are prone to unwanted yaw-roll oscillations at high airspeed, I've always found it best to apply lots of VG if I want to fly fast and straight.

* I believe that washout / twist actually helps to drive these oscillations, not damp them out. I used to have a more detailed theory as to why but it was only a theory and I don't fully remember it now off the top of my head. Basically it had to do with the idea that the negative (downward) lift generated by the washed-out portions of the wing out near the tip, when the bar is well pulled in, might be playing an important role in helping to drive these oscillations.

* In practical terms, I think we all agree that avoiding these oscillations is one of the main reason why we often choose to apply a fair bit of VG for aerotowing. Like 50% VG. Of course the dynamics of yaw-roll oscillations during aerotow are likely not exactly the same as the dynamics of yaw-roll oscillations in free flight. Yet it's always been my experience that the gliders that fly like they are "on rails" during aerotow are also the ones where it is difficult or impossible to create a self-sustaining (no pilot roll input) yaw-roll oscillation in free flight.

* Here are some videos of some self-sustaining yaw-roll oscillations-- for the purpose of demonstration, I'm doing my best to give zero roll input in these videos once I get the oscillation started --

1/3 speed-- http://vimeo.com/80401228

full speed-- http://vimeo.com/8039245

* I've also verified that these oscillations can still occur-- but are less pronounced-- if the crossbar is lashed to the keel so that it can't shift left or right

* Other threads where I discuss these oscillations in more detail and offer some more detailed theories on what might be driving these oscillations--

Hang Gliding Org Forum Index -> Hang gliding Videos->Video of self-sustaining yaw-roll oscillations Spectrum 144
(started October 2013)

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30190

Hang Gliding Org Forum Index -> Hang gliding general->Yaw-roll oscillations-- self-sustaining and pilot-enhanced
(started May 2010)

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17345

Steve

Hang gliding general :: RE: What to do with well-used or very old gliders--

25 April, 2017 - 23:37
Author: dayhead
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:37 pm (GMT -8)

The only HG TeePee I've seen was simply two old Standards, minus the X-Bars and kingpost and control bar, opened and standing on the ground, with some duct tape holding it all together.

I didn't see inside, so I don't know if they had what I'm thinking would be cool--use the parts from a couple old VG systems to make a hoist, hanging from the apex. Hoist a bunch of yer stuff up above head height to conserve floor space.

Saw another Standard put to good use-- It was a simple wind-break shelter. Both leading edges on the ground, with the tail of the keel held up by a tall control bar.

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Hang & Para PR Video?

25 April, 2017 - 19:31
Author: flybop
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:31 am (GMT -8)

Steve, I think this is a great idea for a video to show to landowners. It does seem that that this is a specific goal that will require a dedicated production to achieve.

Perhaps we can start a funding program to raise some money to produce this type of video. If something like this was available to all of us to have on our laptops it would be a huge help with landowner relations.

Is there anyone here with video production expertise...?
_________________
What a beautiful day! Let's go jump off a mountain!!!

"He did not know he could not fly and so he did" Guy Clark,

"The Cape" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6bZ37nexSY

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Hang & Para PR Video?

25 April, 2017 - 19:23
Author: DAVE 858
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:23 am (GMT -8)

The adventures of Saul Good & Birdman! #LIMITLESS

Hang gliding general :: RE: What to do with well-used or very old gliders--

25 April, 2017 - 16:47
Author: red
Subject: Re: What to do with well-used or very old gliders--
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:47 am (GMT -8)

Andrew Vanis wrote: the link says "Uses steel ring or bicycle rim in the support cable" I would imagine that a 175 pilot, harness, and glider would pull the bicycle rim straight / cloapse it. Andrew,

Hey, use whatever works. I think the fat-tire bike rims can do the job, or maybe an old motorcycle rim. Check with the older shops; they probably have something lying around that we can use, but the bikes can not. Any metal ring that holds the weight (and passes the top nose-wire through) will be the right stuff.

If you scroll down on the WIKI HG Simulator site, check out the Mantis and engine-hoist rigs, also. The Mantis could be built from the tubes of an old glider. The ball pivots are just aircraft hardware items. I have seen the engine-hoist rig done with an old trike fitting on the keel, all done with existing hardware.

All this is to say, you can use an old unsafe glider as an excellent training tool, to teach the next generation of HG pilots.
_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum 'chute

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Hang & Para PR Video?

25 April, 2017 - 16:25
Author: dbotos
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:25 am (GMT -8)

I wonder if you could piece something together from existing videos (with permission from the various video owners). Add on-screen text and/or voiceovers to convey important information. Can't help much with footage, but here's a proposed script:

1. Intro - talk about HG/PG history and USHPA with regard to ratings, safety focus, etc.

2. Pilots meet at LZ to inspect for hazards, vegetation height, set up wind indicator(s), and check LZ conditions. Give specs for typical and reduced HG/PG LZ sizes. Also talk about uphill/downhill, power lines, fences, etc.

3. Pilots head to launch, leaving at least one vehicle parked at LZ (and maybe an observer). Talk about access roads, gates, parking at launch, setup space.

4. Pilots check launch conditions. Set up wind indicators at launch. Talk about launch specs (width, slope angle, clearing trees downhill of launch, etc.)

5. Pilots setup and launch. Good time to talk about preflight and safety procedures. Give brief descriptions of typical HG/PG launch procedures.

6. Flight. Give some basic information about how pilots control their HG/PG while in the air.

7. Landing. Talk about how pilots set up an approach and land, including use of wind indicators, avoiding hazards, etc.

8. Post-flight. Talk about packing up and pilots treating land and landowners with respect. Probably a good time to get into all the insurance stuff too.

Hang gliding general :: RE: What to do with well-used or very old gliders--

25 April, 2017 - 16:19
Author: Andrew Vanis
Subject: Re: What to do with well-used or very old gliders--
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:19 am (GMT -8)

red wrote: MorphFX wrote: samarth2004 wrote: Hi!

Cheers!
Samarth Now that first picture has got my interest now... what's going on there then? MorrphFX,

This is what is going on . . .
http://www.hanggliding.org/wiki/Soaring_simulators#Real.2C_Hands-On_HG_Simulator_:
The text article there linked with it will explain things.

the link says "Uses steel ring or bicycle rim in the support cable" I would imagine that a 175 pilot, harness, and glider would pull the bicycle rim straight / cloapse it.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Carbon or Aluminum outer leading edges - Stiffer the better?

25 April, 2017 - 15:14
Author: AIRTHUG
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:14 am (GMT -8)

Theoretically, with more VG and less twist, there is less drag at the tips- therefore less yaw damping or resistance to the glider yawing due to turbulence or adverse yaw from pilot input and roll.

In practice, at least in my experience, a hang gliding yawing is not the problem to be concerned with- it's either the ensuing PIO oscillation from trying to "fix" yaw with roll inputs... OR, it's the inverse-relationship of yaw and roll that exists in wings with anhedral like hang gliders. Google "dutch roll" if that's a foreign concept...

In terms of PIO, my experience both personally and observing/coaching others is that it tends to be worst- as in most susceptible or most likely to occur- right around 3/4 VG. I think this may be for several reasons- people don't spend as much time flying at 3/4 VG, so we tend to be less dialed in at that setting. This is also when the sprogs go active (+/-) so that could lead to a less linear change in handling and response than experienced from 0% VG up through 50%. Maybe? And at full-pull 100+% VG, most modern gliders are stiff enough that they tend to track pretty straight if for no other reason than "PIO" becomes "pIO"- little p because the pilot's inputs are muted or less effective.

Going back to the theoretical side of things, pilot roll inputs should have a proportionately greater effect on yaw than roll at full VG than at the lower settings... but since we don't fly in a lab, screw theory- if we don't feel it or see it, it's still worth paying lip service but not worth dwelling on...

Last but maybe most important note- wing twist can DAMPEN yaw, meaning slow how quickly the glider rotates nose-heading, but it will not stop or prevent it. Damping the yaw rate is important because, as the wing rotates, the outboard parts of the wing gain momentum, which can actually carry the yaw motion past where it was trying to go to find equilibrium... and what follows next is yawing back the other way to get to that equilibrium, and if the turbulence or irregular airflow or whatever has ceased, that could mean not just yawing back the teeny bit of overshoot, but yawing all the way back to center... again gaining momentum, and again overshooting. This happens to some degree pretty much all the time we are flying, and we either don't notice it, or purposefully ignore it. Best advice is, in 99.9% of cases, to remind yourself- even talk to yourself aloud if necessary- to leave the yaw alone! We can make pitch inputs or roll inputs, but we don't have a means of making yaw inputs. So just keep your eyes up and looking where you want to fly, and if your forward progress is going where you want, try to not even care what direction your nosecone is pointed. Just like "crabbing" across a windy ridge...

Hopefully that all makes sense, and maybe even helps... and doesn't confuse you more? lol
_________________
Shut up and fly.

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: carbiner

25 April, 2017 - 14:52
Author: AIRTHUG
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:52 am (GMT -8)

https://www.rei.com/c/carabiners?r=c%3Bcarabiner-material%3ASteel&origin=web&ir=category%3Acarabiners

Just looking at REI, $12-$35 depending on the steel biner.

Say you use one for 10 yrs; That's $1.20-$3.50/year. Possibly the most important, yet cheapest, peace-of-mind bit of hang gliding equipment we have.

Buying a new one and putting it on would probably take less time and effort than coming here, posing the question, checking back and reading the responses
_________________
Shut up and fly.

Hang gliding general :: Recreation Risk Retention Group, Inc. (RRRG)

25 April, 2017 - 14:22
Author: joefaust
Subject: Recreation Risk Retention Group, Inc. (RRRG)
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:22 am (GMT -8)

Recreation Risk Retention Group, Inc.
Tue, Apr 25 2017

This topic thread could be used for a 2017 study of the Recreation Risk Retention Group, Inc., a Vermont-filed corporation.
Masterful understanding of the entity is a target. Discussion might help obtain clarity for many persons affected by the entity. Fuzzy or false beliefs might be moved aside by the study.
==============================

A start:
Code: http://tinyurl.com/RRRGgeneralLINKS
http://tinyurl.com/RRRGgeneralLINKS

What is it?
What it is not?
What does it do?
What laws must it respect when it does things?
What is its exact history?
What text emanates from it officially?
What text emanates from it unofficially?
What errors has it made, if any?
What are the effects of its actions?
Where might it be going?
What is the precise list of its debtors?
Exactly what is its relationship with other businesses and persons and corporations?
What persons or entities will it be paying back loans? When and how and by what instruments?
Are its minutes public?
When or if a corporate member of the RRRG makes an error in application of the RRRG, then what happens?
Etc.
Offer up your study questions. Help seek clear answers.

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: carbiner

25 April, 2017 - 14:15
Author: DMarley
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:15 am (GMT -8)

peanuts wrote: I use a Wiinchester
With how many rounds?
Has anyone heard of any published time / use / fatigue tests for quality steel carabiners?

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Hang & Para PR Video?

25 April, 2017 - 13:07
Author: ChattaroyMan
Subject: Re: Hang & Para PR Video?
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:07 am (GMT -8)

AIRTHUG wrote: ChattaroyMan wrote: Something one could show at a public gathering where the viewer comes away with a decent understanding of the differences and similarities of hangs and paras and what it takes to launch and land them.
I can't help but think to myself... most HG *pilots* don't fit that description lol

Yeah, most flying vids are made by us for us. I'd love to have a good one, maybe with some drone views and on-glider views that imparted a feel for what a typical launch and setup area looked like, the space required to complete a launch in little to no wind for both hangs and paras, etc. - maybe witth 2 to 3 of both glider types .... then the same for the LZ.

For folks who've not been to a flying site it is rather difficult to adequately describe what we do when it comes to leaving Earth's surface and returning to it. There are a lot of parts of vids that could be put together but it would be nice have a video production targeted just for that .... informing would-be private landowners and/or public land managers just what we do when it comes to our space requirements. And done in a fashion that is designed for good PR.

Maybe a good undertaking for our own club to produce .....
_________________
Steve Baran � U2 160 � Chattaroy, WA - USA � USHPA# 16529 � www.centeroflift.org

Hang gliding general :: RE: Carbon or Aluminum outer leading edges - Stiffer the better?

25 April, 2017 - 10:09
Author: waveview
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:09 am (GMT -8)

Thanks for the great explanation about why carbon outers work well and the sprogs making contact with the sail at 1/2 to 3/4 VG. Just one more question , if I may, would you expect the tendency of a wing to experience yaw at speed to be greater of less with the sprogs "active" and in contact with the sail?
Thanks and Best regards
_________________
Don't let gravity get you down.

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: How often do you replace your carabiner?

25 April, 2017 - 09:34
Author: ascaro
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:34 am (GMT -8)

http://finsterwalder-charly.de/en/finsterwalder-karabiners/snaplock-karabiner.html

Safety advice bottom of this page

Incident Reports :: RE: Hook Knives Save Lives!!!!

25 April, 2017 - 07:20
Author: Rcpilot
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:20 pm (GMT -8)

Takeo77 wrote: Hook knife and a multitool are my constant companions, especially when I fly. Hook knife where I can get to it in my harness pocket and my multitool on my belt underneath it. One thing that the military taught me is that you should always have a blade on you for a variety of reasons. A hook knife saved my brother from a malfunctioning tow release.

A repeat of that could get someone dead! Yikes !!!

What kind of tow release was it and how did it malfunction???

Hang gliding general :: RE: Hang Glider storage solutions

25 April, 2017 - 03:29
Author: jheissjr
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:29 pm (GMT -8)

CAL wrote:
here is the rope system, it has a catch on it that if you pull to one side it catches. or if you let go of it, it will catch so if you accidentally let go it does not fall to the ground and break what ever you are hoisting

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cartman-Kayak-Hoist-Lift-Garage-Storage-Canoe-Hoists-100-Pound-Working-Capacity-/322184822392?hash=item4b03b63e78:g:FHgAAOSwZ1BXfl1Cund

How does the setup clear the garage door when it opens? Do you have a garage door opener, open the door by hand?