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Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?

21 March, 2017 - 16:55
Author: brian scharp
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:55 am (GMT -8)

Not found in any manual.
Mike Lake wrote: Squeezing the front wires together is also a quick and easy test. This is something I've done since the days of bulldog clamps.
A friend watched me do this last year and made it part of his preflight.
Just in time it would seem as his rear wire failed at the keel while still on the ground instead of over a volcano in Lanzarote!

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?

21 March, 2017 - 16:37
Author: NMERider
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:37 am (GMT -8)

The same illustrations appear in multiple manuals. This simple test could have easily saved a life recently lost at a NorCal coastal site. It's your lives people. Would you rather rely on urban legend and old wives tales that permeate this sport like a stench or facts from the people who manufacture and test your gliders? The choice is yours. It would be nice if the manuals all showed illustrations of the simple Lift & Tug Hook-in Check too.
_________________
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Hang gliding general :: Chewelah, WA-USA Area Flying Sites

21 March, 2017 - 16:06
Author: ChattaroyMan
Subject: Chewelah, WA-USA Area Flying Sites
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:06 am (GMT -8)

Wondering … How many of you pilots might consider vacationing in this area?

This is the Chewelah, WA area and the map below is roughly 12-13 miles square. Chewelah is 170 road miles ENE of Chelan Butte & 50 miles NNW of Spokane (which has a goodly sized international airport). The locations with the red dots are open to flying now. The blue dot will be open in 2018, maybe sooner. The yellow dots are on the wish list. The red dot sites range from 500’ to 2000’ vertical. A story on the Inkler’s Point site is in the July 2015 issue of Hang Gliding & Paragliding Magazine (http://issuu.com/us_hang_gliding_paragliding).

The overall objective in this area is to have launches accommodating all wind directions. By 2018 that will likely be a reality. Inkler’s Point and Parker Mountain have 2 launches each. Their launches and the Eagle Mountain launch face our prevailing wind directions (S-SW). Wrights Mtn faces E. Wuesthoff Hill will have launches facing N and E. Quartzite Mtn can likely be flown now but it will always be hike in only. Quartzite is an amazing steep rock faced mountain just E of Chewelah. Hole In The Wall has a great 1000'+ steep NE face. It is owned by a lumber company that I’m exploring possibilities through the Chewelah Chamber of Commerce. Our USHPA Chapter is a member of the chamber of commerce. All flying visitors must currently contact our Chapter for site introductions. To protect us and our sites we require full USHPA membership. Inkler’s Point is a USHPA insured site.

You’re invited to our first Fly-In at the Inkler’s Point site on 7/14-16!

For further information on the Fly-In, XC potential, anything ….. ask away!

PS - The opening view photo of the Chewelah area in this video is a photo of mine taken on a short XC flight from Inkler's Point to Chewelah. So are the last few photos of the vid.

Link



_________________
Steve Baran � U2 160 � Chattaroy, WA - USA � USHPA# 16529 � www.centeroflift.org

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: WANTED: PacAir Mark 4 or Pulse

21 March, 2017 - 15:45
Author: peanuts
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:45 am (GMT -8)

not fire sale, but I hear production has resumed on Pulse. Must be a reason...

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?

21 March, 2017 - 15:25
Author: Rcpilot
Subject: Re: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:25 am (GMT -8)

red wrote: Rcpilot wrote: What did the folks at Wills Wing have to say about your concern of the issue of work hardening of stainless cable due to performing the side wire load test, red? Rcpilot,

I just looked in some WW owners' manuals on-line, and I did not see this cable "stomp test" in them.
Can somebody quote a WW owners' manual (or any WW source) calling for that "stomp test?"
I'd like to see what they ask you to do there.
You can download new manuals for your WW glider at their web site.

From a technical standpoint, if a cable is rigged straight and tight, deflecting the cable by a handspan can put enormous loads on the cable. A cable rigged slack can be deflected by a handspan and that will put a relatively small load on the cable. It's a function relating to trigonometry. A weak "stomp test" may tell you nothing useful. A strong "stomp test" can work harden your cables. If the cable deflects far enough to let you grind the cable underfoot against the ground, one "stomp test" can damage an otherwise good cable. These "variables" make the "stomp test" unreliable, and maybe risky, in my opinion. YMMV.



http://willswing.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/Alpha_June_2015.pdf

Quote: While pushing up on the leading edge between the nose and the crossbar junction, step on the
bottom side wire with about 75 lbs. of force. This is a rough field test of the structural security
of the side wire loop, the control bar, the kingpost, and the crossbar, and will likely reveal a
major structural defect that could cause an in-flight failure in normal operation.

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: WANTED: PacAir Mark 4 or Pulse

21 March, 2017 - 15:15
Author: WingedGringo
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:15 am (GMT -8)

Well I didn't mention that because I need a wing for my ol' amigo José too and he is about half my size so I am interested in whatever pops up. I'm gonna take your suggestion and go look at the classifieds. I wonder if it's the one owned by the guy in Whitewater, WI, who apparently has quite a stack of vintage sackcloth, all of which seems wildly overpriced to this hangie, and unlikely to sell at those prices. I am looking for a fire sale. Thanks!

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?

21 March, 2017 - 15:03
Author: red
Subject: Re: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:03 am (GMT -8)

Rcpilot wrote: What did the folks at Wills Wing have to say about your concern of the issue of work hardening of stainless cable due to performing the side wire load test, red? Rcpilot,

I just looked in some WW owners' manuals on-line, and I did not see this cable "stomp test" in them.
Can somebody quote a WW owners' manual (or any WW source) calling for that "stomp test?"
I'd like to see what they ask you to do there.
You can download new manuals for your WW glider at their web site.

From a technical standpoint, if a cable is rigged straight and tight, deflecting the cable by a handspan can put enormous loads on the cable. A cable rigged slack can be deflected by a handspan and that will put a relatively small load on the cable. It's a function relating to trigonometry. A weak "stomp test" may tell you nothing useful. A strong "stomp test" can work harden your cables. If the cable deflects far enough to let you grind the cable underfoot against the ground, one "stomp test" can damage an otherwise good cable. These "variables" make the "stomp test" unreliable, and maybe risky, in my opinion. YMMV.


_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum 'chute

Hang gliding general :: RE: Newbie Pilot Harness - Cocoon vs Knee Hanger

21 March, 2017 - 10:24
Author: RobertKesselring
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:24 am (GMT -8)

I fly a GTXC pod harness from LMFP.

Easy to get into and out of and top notch build quality.

I don't have a lot of experience flying other harnesses so I can't really make comparisons except to say that it's vastly better than the knee hanger that I took my 1'st few mountain flights in. I did not like the knee hanger at all. That said, I know a lot of pilots do a lot of time in knee hangers, so YMMV.
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Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?

21 March, 2017 - 09:36
Author: raquo
Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:36 am (GMT -8)

Thanks all of you for the insightful answers!

I'm ordering new wires of course, but it's still good to know what amount of discoloration is acceptable (I have other wires with just a couple black dots on their nicos). I've emailed Mike as NMERider suggested asking for advice on this, we'll see what he says.

Red, I cut off the shrinkwrap and tried rubbing off the black stuff with a piece of cloth dipped in alcohol like you've suggested – no result, still there, hard as metal. The nico on the other side wire had grey discoloration, after cleaning with alcohol that discoloration became black just like the photos that I've posted.

And no, I do not land in salt mines or anything like that, just grassy fields in a valley.

I did not do the stomp test because I'm sure that the nico will hold the ~50 lb force of this test, it's the higher loads that can happen in flight that I'm concerned about.
_________________
—Nikita

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?

21 March, 2017 - 05:46
Author: Rcpilot
Subject: Re: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:46 pm (GMT -8)

red wrote: Dave Jacob wrote: Comet wrote: NMERider wrote: Do the side wire stomp test. It's in the manual. That test has always bothered me. It seems abusive to wires and could actually precipitate a problem. It's kinda like saying "smash your helmet against the ground before every flight to make sure it's impact-worthy." Structural materials move through an elastic zone prior to experiencing permanent deformation as the load is applied. As long as you stay in the elastic regime you will not be appreciably damaging your glider. So getting a decent estimate on the amount of force you are applying is important. Dave,

You are correct, as far as the elastic zone is concerned, but I would have a hard time determining where that point might be, in the field. I stand with Comet on this one issue, and the problem here is stainless steel Work Hardening. Most stainless steel alloys are prone to Work Hardening..

What did the folks at Wills Wing have to say about your concern of the issue of work hardening of stainless cable due to performing the side wire load test, red?

Hang gliding general :: RE: Let's All Use Instagram for Hang Gliding Marketing!

21 March, 2017 - 02:32
Author: designbydave
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:32 pm (GMT -8)

#hanggliding - 40,806 posts

#paragliding - 558,634 posts

Let's get on it!
_________________
-Dave Aldrich

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?

21 March, 2017 - 02:20
Author: NMERider
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:20 pm (GMT -8)

Comet wrote: NMERider wrote: Do the side wire stomp test. It's in the manual.

That test has always bothered me. It seems abusive to wires and could actually precipitate a problem.
It's kinda like saying "smash your helmet against the ground before every flight to make sure it's impact-worthy."


.
Dude, you crack me up. Never change.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/glidela

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: WANTED: PacAir Mark 4 or Pulse

21 March, 2017 - 02:18
Author: Eteamjack
Subject: MK 4
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:18 pm (GMT -8)

You didn't mention what size your looking for. Theres one in the classifieds on this website. Supposedly really nice shape. Also check John Heineys website.
_________________
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"If Your One Who Doesn't Succeed At First Maybe Hanggliding's Not For You"

"Don't take life seriously it isn't permanent"

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: WANTED: PacAir Mark 4 or Pulse

21 March, 2017 - 01:48
Author: WingedGringo
Subject: WANTED: PacAir Mark 4 or Pulse
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:48 pm (GMT -8)

Greetings glide heads! I have just returned from my ol' stomping grounds in Valle de Bravo where I flew El Peñon del Diablo 3 times and remembered why I love that place so. I am already planning to go back for 2 weeks next February. This year I flew a Falcon from Jeff Hunt who also arranged a ride to launch and pickup, and I was happy flying the Falcon because things have changed since I last flew there and there are many tight LZs (as well as a few enormous ones). It would be nice to have a little better glide though.
So, I am looking for PacAir Mark 4 or PULSE, to take with me on my motorhome next year, and I will be wandering about this summer so I could maybe pick it up somewhere in the USA.
CALL Ole, 425 280-4198
PS I'm a big PacAir fan!
PSS Check out Jeff here: flymexico.com

Hang gliding general :: RE: Suprone revisited, the "Fenison Fly Bar"

20 March, 2017 - 23:38
Author: toestub
Subject: Supine
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:38 pm (GMT -8)

Anyone know how Bob Thompson was set up? Flew over the Grand Canyon and back supine, as well as multiple Arizona XC records. I tried to find a picture I remember seeing of him at Sheba Crater but couldn't find it.

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?

20 March, 2017 - 22:16
Author: drachenjoe
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:16 pm (GMT -8)

Hmm,
corrosion on the nicopress sleeves can never result in black or dark-grey particles... Good advice from RED and NMERider btw..

PS : got 2 oldtimers last summer ( Bautek Pamir ) , built 1993. Factory checked in 1998, flown til 2000. Still the original downtubes and wires. Bautek manual :" when you are sure that the wires are "unharmed", they must NOT be replaced after a certain time or flights...".
No kinks, no broken filaments, sleeves not deformed, pressed as it should be - I don´t worry, feel secure.
Scheisse happened only with wrong swageing or 1x19 "dental floss" side wires in aerobatics, as far as I know....
_________________
Flying since `76 : Homebuild Rhoenadler, Valkyrie, Sensor 210E. Actual : Bautek Pamir and Kite (Avatar).

The camp fire :: RE: Eagle Cam!

20 March, 2017 - 21:37
Author: JR
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:37 pm (GMT -8)

Live Eagle-cam in Hanover, PA. Two eggs laid and one hatched yesterday.

https://hdontap.com/index.php/video/stream/bald-eagle-live-cam

JR

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?

20 March, 2017 - 21:33
Author: WingedGringo
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:33 pm (GMT -8)

NICO = NIckle and COpper

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?

20 March, 2017 - 21:26
Author: Comet
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:26 pm (GMT -8)

NMERider wrote: Do the side wire stomp test. It's in the manual.

That test has always bothered me. It seems abusive to wires and could actually precipitate a problem.
It's kinda like saying "smash your helmet against the ground before every flight to make sure it's impact-worthy."


.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Hello / first post

20 March, 2017 - 20:02
Author: flybop
Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:02 pm (GMT -8)

David, as you will see, a 2 hour drive is not that bad. There are many other sites in Pa other than Hyner. Do you like to hike, camp or fish? If so you can combine them into a weekend hg trip.

Your next step should be to go hang out with the guys you will be flying with. Look at the Hyner site and map out their sites. The day before, even the morning of, can be a scramble to ascertain which site is best suited for the day's conditions.
_________________
What a beautiful day! Let's go jump off a mountain!!!

"He did not know he could not fly and so he did" Guy Clark,

"The Cape" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6bZ37nexSY