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Hang gliding general :: RE: Hello - new member

26 April, 2017 - 13:51
Author: blindrodie
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:51 am (GMT -8)

Welcome John. Let us knw how your adventure goes...


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Hang gliding general :: Podcast with HG Legend, Larry Tudor

26 April, 2017 - 13:39
Author: JR
Subject: Podcast with HG Legend, Larry Tudor
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:39 am (GMT -8)

I was at Walt's Point on that mid-summer day in 1988 when Larry Tudor flew to Boundary Peak and back (with Geoffrey Lyons, I believe) for the 198-mile Out and Return record. I think I bombed out at Independence that day, getting less than 20 miles.

http://www.cloudbasemayhem.com/episode-29-larry-tudor-from-scary-origins-to-radical-records/

JR

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Hang & Para PR Video?

26 April, 2017 - 12:46
Author: ChattaroyMan
Subject: Re: Hang & Para PR Video?
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:46 am (GMT -8)

AIRTHUG wrote: ChattaroyMan wrote: I'd love to have a good one, maybe with some drone views and on-glider views that imparted a feel for what a typical launch and setup area looked like, the space required to complete a launch in little to no wind for both hangs and paras, etc.
Thanks for those vids Ryan - lots of good ideas on camera work/placement. I especially like the launch and launch area sequences of the Ellenville vids.
_________________
Steve Baran � U2 160 � Chattaroy, WA - USA � USHPA# 16529 � www.centeroflift.org

Hang gliding general :: Hello - new member

26 April, 2017 - 12:11
Author: Scratcanfly
Subject: Hello - new member
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:11 am (GMT -8)

Hi, John Reid here from Cape Town, South Africa.
Just got my A licence, check out some basic vids at... ok will post link once verified.


I love outdoors - surf, kitesurf, paddle, run, hike. Enjoy photography and video, illustration. Totally love flying and exploring but don't go all that much with kids, work etc.
Work in education, product development of science stuff

I've already read a few threads on this forum from a couple years back and have a stack to learn.


Hang gliding general :: RE: Dynamic Soaring and the Albatross

26 April, 2017 - 11:48
Author: Beeza
Subject: Dynamic Soaring and the Albatross
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:48 am (GMT -8)

Some notes on Taras K's Side Gust Soaring illustration.

http://www.icarusengineering.com/Side-Gust-Soaring.GIF

They're a bit scrappy, and also from my point of view.

Apologies.

Hang gliding general :: RE: What to do with well-used or very old gliders--

26 April, 2017 - 11:42
Author: BubbleBoy
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:42 am (GMT -8)

I sell mine on Craig's List with three single sided, large lettered cards titled "Flight instructions:

1: Pull in
2 Run (the steeper down the better)
3: Push out

No one has ever brought one back with a single complaint.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Carbon or Aluminum outer leading edges - Stiffer the better?

26 April, 2017 - 06:38
Author: NMERider
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:38 pm (GMT -8)

AIRTHUG wrote: ....You're in SoCal, ask Stevie. As for outdated information, check the date that manual was written. Hint, it's right in the link you posted #duh A substantial portion of that manual was created long before 2012. The sprog angle measurements on page 40 are current information in this 2012 5th edition. This data hopefully lays to rest some myths and misconceptions. I worked directly with Steve on the internal camera test at his suggestion and my descriptions of the actual internal sprog workings are consistent with our discussions on the matter. Most manufacturers are receptive to direct inquiries on technical aspects of their products. Hopefully the OP and other interested parties benefit from this fact-based information. It is my desire that hang glider know-how move from myth-based to fact-based but I don't expect miracles.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/glidela

Hang gliding general :: RE: Carbon or Aluminum outer leading edges - Stiffer the better?

26 April, 2017 - 06:08
Author: AIRTHUG
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:08 pm (GMT -8)

NMERider wrote: What you may find interesting is that the Wills Wing T2/T2C manual at page 40 actually slightly shows lower sprog angle settings for the T2 144 than the T2C 144:
http://willswing.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/T2_5th_September_2012.pdf
So I'm not sure where people are getting their information or whether they are relying on outdated information that was considered accurate years ago but no longer so.

You're in SoCal, ask Stevie. As for outdated information, check the date that manual was written. Hint, it's right in the link you posted #duh
_________________
Shut up and fly.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Carbon or Aluminum outer leading edges - Stiffer the better?

26 April, 2017 - 05:31
Author: NMERider
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:31 pm (GMT -8)

waveview wrote: ....I was also reading that a carbon outer can allow a greater safety margin for lower sprog settings (than an aluminum outer) as the carbon outer is less likely to twist if the sail loads down on the sprog.... What you may find interesting is that the Wills Wing T2/T2C manual at page 40 actually slightly shows lower sprog angle settings for the T2 144 than the T2C 144:
http://willswing.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/T2_5th_September_2012.pdf
So I'm not sure where people are getting their information or whether they are relying on outdated information that was considered accurate years ago but no longer so.
Another thing to consider is that correctly adjusted sprogs on a T2C 144 never touch the sail until the VG is pulled fully tight (with the limiter removed from the keel) and the airspeed reduced to near minimum sink. I previously posted video taken from inside my sail showing how my sprog wires set at factory angle never quite go tight even though I'm at 120% of full VG and flying at min sink.
So why is the carbon outboard leading edge important? The reduced flex reduces adverse yaw and so the glider will enter a turn sooner and with less work. The sail can also be pulled a little flatter for more competitive glides.

BTW Nicos, My 2009 T2C 144 has nearly 1200 hours on the airframe with the original carbon outboards.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/glidela

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: carbiner

26 April, 2017 - 05:19
Author: Nicos
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:19 pm (GMT -8)

Yes you should. get one of these and you won't need to again (stainless steel, self-locking)

Something like this: http://www.capitalsafety.com/euadmin/pages/productdetails.aspx?prodId=6174

Hang gliding general :: RE: Carbon or Aluminum outer leading edges - Stiffer the better?

26 April, 2017 - 05:14
Author: Nicos
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:14 pm (GMT -8)

CF makes me think of invisible hairline cracks that even super-seasoned experts can't detect. Makes me think of one little crack from a small/incidental impact during transport or whatever... a second hand CF glider sounds like a potential death trap lottery to me.

CF makes me think of being hugely strong in some directions and weak in others... like basebars on rocky ground.

Since I'm a pure leisure pilot, I don't want critical parts made of CF thanks.

Oh, and all my wires are coated too... I know right, pathetic — and yes I always fly with wheels (except perhaps at the beach).


Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: How often do you replace your carabiner?

26 April, 2017 - 04:47
Author: Nicos
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:47 pm (GMT -8)

I replaced mine once — then I got a stainless steel self-closing gate... that's all I'm likely to need, ever.

Pretty easy to use, pretty easy to lock, tough to rust, almost impossible to hairline crack, sweeeet.

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: THE PERFECT CIRCLE - short inspirational film

26 April, 2017 - 03:57
Author: Flyking
Subject: Ryan miss you and your Family !
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:57 pm (GMT -8)

What can I say but AWESOME Ryan please come visit Utah soon. I would love to share the air with you again. Miss your critical advice that has taught me to become a better pilot. Hope to see you soon. KC
_________________
H-4. Flying since 1975, Gliders, 17 ft Manta St, Electra Flyer Wildflower 220, Leading Edge Air Foil 6-C 160, Electra Flyer Oly 160, WW Omega 220, UP Comet 160, UP Comet O.V.R.160, UP Comet 2 160, UP TRX 160, WW Fusion 141, Bennett Dream 220 , UP Predator 142 and T-2 154. Love to Fly King Mt. Willard and the Crawford Mt's are the home sites. FL,AWCL,CL,FSL,RLF,TUR.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Xterra Rack #2.5

26 April, 2017 - 03:44
Author: Jason
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:44 pm (GMT -8)

magicpotato wrote: Looks good! Do you have a front rack as well? I would do one more support up front to keep the nose supported if it was my rack

yes i do, haven't changed the front,

http://www.hanggliding.org/download.php?id=24127

Hang gliding general :: Xterra Rack #2.5

26 April, 2017 - 02:47
Author: Jason
Subject: Xterra Rack #2.5
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:47 pm (GMT -8)

my old thread is too old to edit...so i started a new one

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=29283&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

I bent a t2c tube last week, and then went to CA for work. My old man has a few old tubes laying around, so mix one part wills, a few parts sensor, and one attack tube with some u bolts and i have boosted my carrying capacity.

Still need to put some padding on it, and cover the nuts, but this is looking good, i just did a dip off the attack tube, and the sensor tube, so that put over 80 lbs on each cantelever end..should be more than enough to support a glider

also put some shorter ones on the bottom to create a little basket, now i can store small thin things beneath the gliders or whatever else ends up there

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Hang & Para PR Video?

26 April, 2017 - 02:35
Author: AIRTHUG
Subject: Re: Hang & Para PR Video?
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:35 pm (GMT -8)

ChattaroyMan wrote: I'd love to have a good one, maybe with some drone views and on-glider views that imparted a feel for what a typical launch and setup area looked like, the space required to complete a launch in little to no wind for both hangs and paras, etc.

Link

or

Link

or
http://vimeo.com/79017537 (sorry, can't embed Vimeo here AFAIK)
_________________
Shut up and fly.

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: carbiner

26 April, 2017 - 02:17
Author: DMarley
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:17 pm (GMT -8)

A good steel 'biner is the strongest part of the system by many orders of magnitude, and because it is steel, it will not fatigue each cycle as all the rest of the aluminum that is holding up that loop and 'biner. Just some food for thought. But sure, if the 'biner is not a good grade of steel, has notches or grooves worn into it, or the pin is bent, the lock is rough, it's not color coordinated any longer, then by all means.
If it was mine and after replacing it, I'd then use my 7-ton, 100hp diesel 4x4 tractor to load-test the sucker by pulling out some tree stumps with it. Judging by all the big steel chains and shackles I've used previously to do just that nearly every spring-time, I'd say the old 'biner will have at least a few stump-pulls left in her.

In fact, the recent wind storm following a big multi-day rain storm blew over a couple of +100 ft pine trees. Yeah, I know, they're only pine trees. But they're blown only half-way down. We'll see if an old hangy 'biner can remove the stump and the rest of the tree in, ok, let's be fair, two big pulls. One for the stump, one for the trunk. I'm bettin' it can. Just my excuse for purchasing a new, color-coordinated super-duper shiny 'biner! Stay tuned...but don't hold your breath..... it's almost as wet as the ocean out here, and the ground's gotta dry up more for ol' Big Blue to be fired up and not sink into the mud too much.

Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Hang & Para PR Video?

26 April, 2017 - 01:57
Author: ChattaroyMan
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:57 pm (GMT -8)

flybop wrote: Steve, I think this is a great idea for a video to show to landowners. It does seem that that this is a specific goal that will require a dedicated production to achieve.

Perhaps we can start a funding program to raise some money to produce this type of video. If something like this was available to all of us to have on our laptops it would be a huge help with landowner relations.

Is there anyone here with video production expertise...?

I like where you're going with this .... We do have a video maker here in Spokane who'd like to do some shooting of our flying. Perhaps we can at least make a go at a video that, if not something very slick, could be used as a trial balloon that gives another production group a good idea of what we'd like to produce. I'll also wait and see who my respond to your question. Thanks Don
_________________
Steve Baran � U2 160 � Chattaroy, WA - USA � USHPA# 16529 � www.centeroflift.org

Hang gliding general :: RE: Carbon or Aluminum outer leading edges - Stiffer the better?

26 April, 2017 - 01:46
Author: aeroexperiments
Subject: yaw-roll oscillations
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:46 pm (GMT -8)

* Interesting comments Ryan, always good to hear your detailed observations

* I think the topic of yaw-roll oscillations in hang gliders is generally not well understood

* A pure yaw oscillation (say as would be set off if you brushed a treetop with your wingtip or something) will always damp out very quickly, after just a few oscillations. Because the "weathervane effect" (aka yaw stability or directional stability) is so powerful. You may be right that wing twist is one of the factors contributing to this.

* It's the Dutch-roll-ish kind oscillation that's a mix of yaw and roll that is more complex and may tend keep going all by itself with no pilot input

* This oscillation is fundamentally different than true Dutch roll in a conventional airplane, where dihedral (or the dihedral-like effect generated by wing sweep) generally plays a role. In contrast, the yaw-roll oscillations we see in hang gliders are most pronounced with the bar well pulled in, where it can be shown that the glider's slip-roll coupling is dominated by anhedral.

* It's been my personal experience that these oscillations are most pronounced with the VG loose, not tight. That comment is based partly on experience with unwanted oscillations during aerotowing of my old kingposted Laminar, and Airborne Blade, and partly on my experiences when intentionally trying to set up a self-sustaining yaw-roll oscillation on various gliders. it's interesting to me that you find that unwanted yaw-roll oscillations are most common with the VG around 3/4 tight-- that surprises me. Maybe that has to do with a tendency for a pilot to over-react/ over-control in reaction to adverse yaw which does tend to be more pronounced with the VG tight. Not such a problem on aerotow because on aerotow we're taught very specifically not to try to control yaw. Anyway my observation is that gliders are most prone to a self-sustaining yaw-roll oscillation when the VG is loose. Also on squirrely gliders that are prone to unwanted yaw-roll oscillations at high airspeed, I've always found it best to apply lots of VG if I want to fly fast and straight.

* I believe that washout / twist actually helps to drive these oscillations, not damp them out. I used to have a more detailed theory as to why but it was only a theory and I don't fully remember it now off the top of my head. Basically it had to do with the idea that the negative (downward) lift generated by the washed-out portions of the wing out near the tip, when the bar is well pulled in, might be playing an important role in helping to drive these oscillations.

* In practical terms, I think we all agree that avoiding these oscillations is one of the main reason why we often choose to apply a fair bit of VG for aerotowing. Like 50% VG. Of course the dynamics of yaw-roll oscillations during aerotow are likely not exactly the same as the dynamics of yaw-roll oscillations in free flight. Yet it's always been my experience that the gliders that fly like they are "on rails" during aerotow are also the ones where it is difficult or impossible to create a self-sustaining (no pilot roll input) yaw-roll oscillation in free flight.

* Here are some videos of some self-sustaining yaw-roll oscillations-- for the purpose of demonstration, I'm doing my best to give zero roll input in these videos once I get the oscillation started --

1/3 speed-- http://vimeo.com/80401228

full speed-- http://vimeo.com/8039245

* I've also verified that these oscillations can still occur-- but are less pronounced-- if the crossbar is lashed to the keel so that it can't shift left or right

* Other threads where I discuss these oscillations in more detail and offer some more detailed theories on what might be driving these oscillations--

Hang Gliding Org Forum Index -> Hang gliding Videos->Video of self-sustaining yaw-roll oscillations Spectrum 144
(started October 2013)

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=30190

Hang Gliding Org Forum Index -> Hang gliding general->Yaw-roll oscillations-- self-sustaining and pilot-enhanced
(started May 2010)

http://www.hanggliding.org/viewtopic.php?t=17345

Steve

Hang gliding general :: RE: What to do with well-used or very old gliders--

25 April, 2017 - 23:37
Author: dayhead
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:37 pm (GMT -8)

The only HG TeePee I've seen was simply two old Standards, minus the X-Bars and kingpost and control bar, opened and standing on the ground, with some duct tape holding it all together.

I didn't see inside, so I don't know if they had what I'm thinking would be cool--use the parts from a couple old VG systems to make a hoist, hanging from the apex. Hoist a bunch of yer stuff up above head height to conserve floor space.

Saw another Standard put to good use-- It was a simple wind-break shelter. Both leading edges on the ground, with the tail of the keel held up by a tall control bar.