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Updated: 36 weeks 1 day ago

Hang gliding general :: RE: I'm BAaaaak. . . .

13 June, 2017 - 17:35
Author: blindrodie
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:35 am (GMT -8)

Good to see you around. Welcome back, but as I read you never really left. Glad the past didn't keep you away. Jeff from Morningside is gone too soon as well...

"Tow me up. I'll find my way down"

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H.E.S. Q330
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Smallest hill you've caught a thermal

13 June, 2017 - 17:15
Author: kukailimoku
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:15 am (GMT -8)

I had a student flying in a mountain clinic in Nevada who set up an absolutely perfect approach that had the best chance of hitting the spot of the entire day. He was at around 20' when the windsock spun and up he went. At least he cleared the cactus on the downwind end of the field. Dang long walk though.

In the event of decompression oxygen masks will deploy from the the ceiling above your seat.

Untangling them will annoy you as you lose consciousness.

Incident Reports :: RE: Quite possibly the dumbest most unsafe thing I've ever seen

13 June, 2017 - 17:10
Author: DMarley
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:10 am (GMT -8)

Robert, this is not just about your vids that are thought by a small minority to be dangerous. It's about these little people that believe that anything other than perfect level flight, in perfectly un-active conditions, far, far away from everyone is just too risky and dangerous for their precious rrrg. They will go to great lengths to vilify anyone that does not remain within their defined safety box. They believe that everyone is equal, everyone has very limited skills that only match these peoples', and God forbid anyone who might think outside their little u$hpa box.
They disgust me. Fracking socialists.

Hang gliding general :: I'm BAaaaak. . . .

13 June, 2017 - 17:05
Author: Maineiac
Subject: I'm BAaaaak. . . .
Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:05 am (GMT -8)

O.K. I'm willin'. My last ride was a 1980 Sensor 210E 183sf. SWEET. Before that a Sky Sports Osprey skate board (the smaller one) that nobody else seemed to be able to fly. Damn thing was telepathic. Anhedral's a helluva drug. I saw a vid of me flying behind a building in the '78 Pico meet, but that warn't me crumpling into the ditch a second later. Check the panel colors. I was the first one to land in the parking lot in competition. Jean Michel drove that Mariah straight into a ditch next to the lodge on his first flight. On THAT flight, Mark Laversa ended up in the top of a tree. Curious how that got left out of the movie. That's me carrying the Osprey down behind Mark when he launched. A nicer guy you never met. I hear he passed away. We had a house outside Killington with Peghiny and Laliberte in for that one. Ed . . . Sky Sports Ed . . . wanted me to fly some BFG or BFK for that one. Hooked a thermal at Morningside before we went over to Killington and could NOT get down fast enough, with Pengweeny screaming "turn, turn." Only flew the one flight at Pico and headed to flyable mountains, just like in that silly '77 Nationals. We went to Magazine then. Flew a Cirrus 3, Bobcats, Larks, a monster WW - not Falcon, something else that guy that made the 'chutes in an old mill in NH wanted me to try to trim. A Raven. Scared the crap out of me but I brought it down without damage. WAY too big for me. Flew other stuff. Went over to Morningside in '99 or so to visit with Nicolay and reminisce. He had me ground handling a Falcon just for the fun of it. After a couple pokes up the grass I said "take me up top." No problem, bang a right and get over the top on the first swing. Jeff was another sweetheart.

I drove through Milford, NH awhile back and couldn't figure out where the train station was that Terry Sweeny and his harem lived in. And if there's a McK brother flyboy out there, you still owe me a few bucks.

62 this year, have missed it terribly. I KNOW when the lapse rate is up on any given day. I recognize on a daily basis when various places are soarable. I always contemplate ridges, cloudstreets and plains anywhere I go in the world. It's been like that for decades. May have to scrape up what I calculate to be about $10K for the training, glider and all the bells and whistles, but maybe. So come on DH, tell me why this isn't a great idea. Kevin W., Maine and U.S. Virgin Islands

Hang gliding general :: RE: Smallest hill you've caught a thermal

13 June, 2017 - 02:47
Author: Ground Slammer
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:47 pm (GMT -8)

After a loooong hiatus I restored an old billow cruzer (Flexi Flyer) for my first bunny hops. The locals took me to Strawberry Rock (Mattol). There is a shallow hill section that they train on so I set up for maybe 5 feet 10 max and gave it a poor first run. The CG was too far back, and the bar was too far back, and I was seated . A thermal blew in and I lifted off. In seconds it became obvious that I was going to fly off the mountain as my L/D to the edge of the mountain was about 1 to 1 and I could not dive . Other than the take off run--hang gliding was like a bicycle-it all came back in an instant-I turned out , got out of the lift and high stalled it over bushes, rode it in like an old rogallo as it was an old rogallo.
I'm convinced that under the right conditions one can get sucked up from flat ground and just get carried off.
PS-the sink rate of a Standard is 450 feet per min, first try and I just started floating away in a plastic sail junker.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Adjusting sprogs on older Sport 2-- ?????

13 June, 2017 - 02:12
Author: NMERider
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:12 pm (GMT -8)

aeroexperiments wrote: Interesting-- seems quite a bit different from what the WW manual suggests (as per previous posts above)-- thanks-- Steve

NMERider wrote: Hang your Sport 2 155 upside down from an overhang or stand it in the tip of the kingpost and balance it inverted. Do this with the VG fully tight. First off, neither the luff lines nor the sprogs should have any effect on the sail either with the sail centered or with the sail shifted to either side. The amount of sprog cable slack and luff line slack should be minimal but not tight on the tighter side of the sail when the sail is shifted to the opposite side. Of course, the sprogs should be set at the same angle and the luff lines should have the same amount of slack. The only time either device should be doing any work in the air is when you are weightless or falling into the glider.
My 2p Worth.
Don't get me started on hang glider manuals and how they often repeat canned statements from umpteen prior manuals dating back to 1980 with little or no regard to keeping your glider operating at the same level of pitch stability for which it was certified. The notion that sprogs need to ever press against the transverse battens while operating at 1G in any VG setting on a modern glider is based on repeating dogma and lawyer's advice. I bought a 2006 topless glider in 2008 that was uncontrollable at VG tight. When I say it was uncontrollable I mean the glider would, not go any faster than 50MPH and would tend to roll upside down. I tied using the imbecilic method described in the owner's manual and no matter what I did I would get grossly different measurements every time I used that method. By coincidence I reached out to an old acquaintance from the 70's who had been using digital levels to measure sprogs and obtained his data for my model glider. After I eliminated the obviously erroneously set sprogs I averaged out the meaningful data and applied to to my glider only to discover that it was delivered by the manufacturer with the sprogs set more than 50% higher than they needed to be. Later the same manufacturer updated its manual to include digital level data and measurement technique but left the voodoo method in the manuals just to foock with everyone's head. My topless glider went from being a flaming POS to a pretty good glider.

Sadly, the voodoo method and dogma from the 1980's and from lawyer's' mouths still contaminate manuals and result in pilots having no viable and readily accessible method for keeping their modern gliders tuned so they would pass certification if they were used as a test subject. In the case of the venerable Sport 2 155 there is no sprog measurement data that I am aware of for use with a digital level. The tensioned thread method is a fooking joke and can produce grossly different measurements and results if blindly repeated by different pilots all using the same glider.

The rule of thumb I was taught for my T2C 144 that I'm confident will apply equally to my Sport 2 155 is to fly the glider in VG full tight at minimum sink speed in calm air at a safe altitude. Have a camera inside the wing pointing at both sprog wires on either side. In level flight the sprog wires should be just slightly slack. This needs to be done on a loaded sail for a glider like the T2C but I do not think you need to do this on a loaded sail for sup pitch stable glider like the Sport 2 155. This is the reason I think you can simply hang the glider inverted at full VG and see how much slack is in each sprog wire. Since the air frame is pretty flexible you could probably adjust the sprogs in this mode so that the wires are just shy of pulling the sprogs against the transverse battens and not have to worry about your roll control being compromised.

Sadly, there will always be lawyers' statements in glider manuals that lead not only to confusion but to uncontrollable gliders. However, I have seen some horribly butchered up settings from pilots who rebelled against the lawyer boilerplate statements and it can have a dangerous backlash. You just can't fix stupid.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Advice on Decorating Dacron, Inks, Dyes, ect.

13 June, 2017 - 02:12
Author: Ground Slammer
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:12 pm (GMT -8)

I talked to the sign maker next door today. He gave me a sample of the decal vinyl. If the stuff doesn't peal off in flight-- and it comes off years latter as well as it comes off fresh, wow! Luster, extra sharp edges, no bubbles,solid vivid color.

Screen paint -my pattern is super simple, it will work with paper template method. I have as of yet to know for sure what dye (paint) is the right one to use so, if anyone knows fill me in so I can get a sample. I trust silk screen dye as it has been done before.
I am all but certain it will be one of these two options and it will be sharp-if the dye bleeds too much I'll go with vinyl. The vinyl will be easier and-- it don't get more sharp and crisp than the vinyl. They say building a small aircraft is like building a model aircraft only bigger. Last step-put on the decals-geez

Incident Reports :: RE: Quite possibly the dumbest most unsafe thing I've ever seen

13 June, 2017 - 02:05
Author: Nicos
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:05 pm (GMT -8)

Meh, its not like they were wing walking, doing loops, flying through rock formations or anything like that — I can think of worse things to be upset about.


Hang gliding Videos :: RE: Full Moon Friday Flying, Fun & Funky!

13 June, 2017 - 01:56
Author: Nicos
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:56 pm (GMT -8)


Hang gliding general :: RE: Smallest hill you've caught a thermal

13 June, 2017 - 00:28
Author: Fletcher
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:28 pm (GMT -8)

Not a hill but low still.
We were doing some pattern scooter towing at a party for fun and when I strapped my vario on the falcon some people laughed and asked why. My response was you just never know when you'll need it.
Hooked a thermal at 150 feet and climbed out. Unfortunately others were waiting for the glider so I had to bail and head back.
No one was laughing when I landed!!!
Chance favors the prepared mind

Hang gliding general :: RE: Smallest hill you've caught a thermal

13 June, 2017 - 00:15
Author: flybop
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:15 pm (GMT -8)

My home site, the Hog Back, is only 300 feet on the north side. We soar it all the time. Personally I like 15 to 20 to provide enough ridge lift so you can work the ridge enough to eventually find a thermal. Launch is 5150 feet msl. Mt personal highest is just over 11,000 msl. There have been much higher flights and many long xc's from the Hog. I have many flights when I was scratching below launch for well over 10 minutes before I eventually made it. There have been many times that I have sunk out as well.

The south side launch is less than 200 feet agl and I have soared that as well. I have also sank out more times than not though.
What a beautiful day! Let's go jump off a mountain!!!

"He did not know he could not fly and so he did" Guy Clark,

"The Cape"

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Nicopress corrosion – is this what it looks like?

12 June, 2017 - 23:18
Author: dbotos
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:18 pm (GMT -8)

Nikita (raquo) was generous enough to send me one of her old wire ends to do some forensics on. I received it at home today and have made a few observations/measurements so far:

1. The wire is 2.5 mm diameter stainless steel.

2. The base material of the sleeve is copper. I drilled into a spot on the sleeve that was free of corrosion and went deep enough to make sure that I was hitting base material and not just getting through the exterior plating to a potential underplating. I could also make out a few hints of copper on other untouched areas of the sleeve near the flared ends and the vees/valleys on the sides.

3. The corrosion appears to be emanating from the vees/valleys on the sides of the sleeve. This makes sense as those areas probably see the most mechanical distortion / stress during the crimping process, conceivably compromising the plating to the point where base material could be a factor in the makeup of the corrosion product.

Should be able to determine more when I get it to the lab. Primarily what the plating is and the makeup of the corrosion product.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Smallest hill you've caught a thermal

12 June, 2017 - 22:57
Author: kukailimoku
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:57 pm (GMT -8)

A combination of thermal heat and a convergence working together, launch about 25', hooked it at around 35', topped out somewhere around 2400'. Marina Beach.

The memory is dim but maybe BubbleBoy was in the gaggle? I'm pretty sure KB was.

In the event of decompression oxygen masks will deploy from the the ceiling above your seat.

Untangling them will annoy you as you lose consciousness.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Smallest hill you've caught a thermal

12 June, 2017 - 22:53
Author: pec1985
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:53 pm (GMT -8)

I've done that too, Karl. I launched at the 600ft hill at Ed Levin and caught a thermal, but this time it was right in front of launch. I turned aggressively and very close to the hill (I know my limits), very tight 360's. Eventually, I doubled my altitude, and that was it. 5 minutes later I was landing.
Ed Levin is a training site. Soaring from the 600ft hill is not very common.

H-4 WW Sport 2 (135)

Hang gliding general :: RE: Smallest hill you've caught a thermal

12 June, 2017 - 22:35
Author: Karl_A
Subject: Re: Smallest hill you've caught a thermal
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:35 pm (GMT -8)

Wonder Boy wrote: Circles, lots of circles
As tight as I could.

The smallest hill I have launched from and climbed out in thermals is the 600 foot (above the LZ) hill at Ed Levin. Oddly enough, the thermals were not right at the hill but farther out, at the base of the hill or even over the flat part of the LZ. I think that is because that LZ has hills on the windward side so it is a bit sheltered from the prevailing wind, allowing more ground heating of the air.

As far as how to do it, what worked for me was being aggressive to get in the thermal and turning tight to stay in it because at 500 feet above the ground thermals are quite small. Efficiency is all well and good but if I tried to fly slow in a shallow bank to get a good sink rate I would get dumped out of it and land rather than climb out.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Leg loops Aeros Viper S harness

12 June, 2017 - 22:10
Author: JFS737
Subject: Viper
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:10 pm (GMT -8)

I had one for 11 years. Very comfortable and the individual leg straps are the reason. No problem getting upright, as well as any other race harness. Love the leg straps though.... I can't take a photo as it's in FL right now.



Hang gliding general :: RE: Smallest hill you've caught a thermal

12 June, 2017 - 21:47
Author: once&future
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:47 pm (GMT -8)

If you mean the smallest hill I launched from then beamed out - 500': Round Mountain, a nice ridge/thermal site in Ventura County that we lost almost 20 years ago due to a litigious PG pilot.

If you mean the smallest hill that served as a thermal trigger while flying XC, then... way smaller than that.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Smallest hill you've caught a thermal

12 June, 2017 - 21:20
Author: Felix
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:20 pm (GMT -8)

^^^What he said!
For me it's the South and North side in Utah at POTM; about 300 feet or so. Nice thermals coming through all the time. Just....turn!
And once I flew the Calvert Cliffs, about 60-80 feet or so? Take off right over the water and no good landing options but a good ways away...funtimes! Mechanical lift that turned into some magic air, I was turning like in a thermal and got up to 2500' over!

Hang gliding general :: RE: Crooked fake buyers responding to Classifieds listings

12 June, 2017 - 21:16
Author: kukailimoku
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:16 pm (GMT -8)

Looks like our classifieds hit the same list as Craigslist, eBay, etc. They send you a check that's "too large", ask you to wire the difference back to them or an "agent", their check bounces, you lost money.

In the event of decompression oxygen masks will deploy from the the ceiling above your seat.

Untangling them will annoy you as you lose consciousness.

Incident Reports :: RE: Dog Mountain crash report Sunday June 5, 2:00pm (John was no

12 June, 2017 - 19:51
Author: Wonder Boy
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:51 am (GMT -8)

Nigel Hewitt wrote:
I landed in a hedge a couple of weeks back.
Didn't bend much so it can't really be a crash.

Lost my glasses though so an expensive landing.

If you didnt mean to land in the hedge then yes,
if you meant to land in the hedge, then yes.

You see where this is going....

Everyone who lives dies, yet not everyone who dies, has lived.
We take these risks not to escape life, but to prevent life escaping us.