News from HangGliding.org

Syndicate content Hang Gliding Org
Updated: 18 weeks 3 hours ago

Hang gliding general :: Advice on Decorating Dacron, Inks, Dyes, ect.

10 June, 2017 - 03:39
Author: Ground Slammer
Subject: Advice on Decorating Dacron, Inks, Dyes, ect.
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:39 pm (GMT -8)

I wish to put some art on my sail and I know I could use insignia tape. I bet I need to sew down all the edges I remember the 70's and Dean Tanji- Western Kestrel and more so I guess there must be some inks and dyes --as well as some does and don'ts. So who has knowledge to share? Also if I misspelled Deans last name straiten me out so I can edit it.

Q&A, Learning to hang glide :: RE: Transition From Hill To Mountain Launch

10 June, 2017 - 01:51
Author: flysurfski
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:51 pm (GMT -8)

DMarley wrote:
You'll hear some pilots try to diminish LMFP abilities to instruct new pilots. Matt Tabor's reputation precedes him, and much of it isn't too positive.

I admit I have been one of the pilots along with many other really experienced pilots on this forum. That being said stick with Tall Paul when you are there and you will be fine. Super nice guy and great instructor. He taught a blind guy to fly at Kitty Hawk Kites just on feeling the bar pressure....

Hang gliding general :: RE: Freedom 190 or Falcon 225 for first hang glider?

9 June, 2017 - 23:52
Author: delta
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:52 pm (GMT -8)

I have a bit of time on a freedom 170, and can say pretty confidently that it yaws much more on tow than any other single surface I've flown, which overall makes it tricky for less experienced pilots to handle.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Help Picking a Sailmakers Hot Knife

9 June, 2017 - 21:45
Author: Ground Slammer
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:45 pm (GMT -8)

Well I'm going to get the gas powered knife-$40 e-bay. A good electric cost hundreds and the gas knife is 100% pro quality tool. One thing not yet put on this post is the best recommendation on how to- a thin aluminum strait edge on one side of the cut ,-and glass backing-clean up with Windex and a razor blade.
I wish to thank everyone and invite you to participate in my next thread on decorating the sail. Sky Out-Ground Slammer

Hang gliding general :: RE: Flymaster Vario LS

9 June, 2017 - 20:35
Author: Mellowmoods
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 12:35 pm (GMT -8)

I love my Flytmaster GPS SD if that makes any difference.
_________________
H-4
Vision MK4
Ultrasport 166
Lightspeed 5
U2C 160

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

9 June, 2017 - 19:30
Author: red
Subject: Re: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:30 am (GMT -8)

TjW wrote: Umm... no they haven't. That's just for Class 1. All the other classes allow aerodynamic control, and there's Class 2 and 5 gliders you can go out and buy today, if you have the money. They're more expensive than rag and tube gliders, but it's not like they're not available, or even that they're a new thing. And I suspect you're wrong about the rules changing. We saw that with the Carbon Dragon and the ATOS. Class 2 pilots didn't want to compete against ultralight sailplanes like the Carbon Dragon, and we have Class 4. Class 1 didn't want to compete with aerodynamic controls, and the ATOS pilots didn't want to compete against gliders that were easier to put fairings on. Thus we have Class 5. My suspicion is that, should effective landing flaps become a thing, gliders will simply have less area, with a concomitant increase in aspect ratio. Landing speed will remain about the same, to gain additional top speed. TjW,

Please allow me to summarize all of that rule-making BS into a single word.

RIDICULOUS.

Hey, pilots, just go flyin'. Have fun, one and all. You cannot measure my fun, and you ruin the fun, in the attempt.


_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum 'chute

The Basement :: RE: Test pilot wanted for ultra-lightweight harness

9 June, 2017 - 19:16
Author: DMarley
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:16 am (GMT -8)

NMERider wrote: Let's all hit the Vote to Bury button until this goes to the sub-basement where it belongs.

Someone doesn't like a thread and becomes all hissy with it?!? Oh waaaaaa!
Just like anything on TV and satellite (cable?)... ya don't have to drink it if ya don't like it.
Or.... we could have a lovely, dwindling, non-talkative-bunch-of-hissies hg forum like they have over there... in that lovely sun-shine state. Wouldn't that be fun. Heck, nearly every topic on that forum gets ambushed by Dudley-do-rights attempting to 'get even' with their nemesis. Or so it seems. Yeah. Fun.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Flymaster Vario LS

9 June, 2017 - 18:58
Author: DMarley
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:58 am (GMT -8)

Looks like it only stores 400,000 points of altitude data, and the verbiage does not indicate whether the altitude data is time-based or not. I'm guessing not. I'm coming to that conclusion by way of their basic altitude graph. Hope I'm wrong.

What is the time interval between measured points? And does that interval remain exactly constant?

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

9 June, 2017 - 18:23
Author: TjW
Subject: Re: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:23 am (GMT -8)

red wrote: TjW wrote: NMERider wrote: Flaps and spoilers would disqualify a flex wing for competition but would be great for recreational X/C flying which is right up my alley. I think you're wrong on that. FAI rules for Class 1 gliders:
Quote: Class 1: Hang gliders having a rigid primary structure with pilot weight-shift as the sole method of control, and which are able to demonstrate consistent ability to safely take-off and land in nil-wind conditions. Subsidiary controls affecting trim and/or drag are permitted, but only if they operate symmetrically. Campers,

WHO CARES? Those stupid rules have held back HG development for more than thirty years,
and 'way it's past time to ditch that baggage. Nobody ever complains when a PG pulls a turn handle!
Why don't we limit the PG pilots to harness-shift controls?

COMPETITION SUCKS! I have no need to buy any glider that "conforms" to anybody's sacred, useless rules.
I fly for FUN. If the glider turns with power steering, and stops (flares) with power brakes, then that's just great!
If the glider can be controlled by weight shift also, in case something fails, that's fine too.

When everybody who shows up at a HG comp has power steering, I have a sneaking suspicion that suddenly,
those useless rules will CHANGE.

Umm... no they haven't. That's just for Class 1. All the other classes allow aerodynamic control, and there's Class 2 and 5 gliders you can go out and buy today, if you have the money. They're more expensive than rag and tube gliders, but it's not like they're not available, or even that they're a new thing.

And I suspect you're wrong about the rules changing. We saw that with the Carbon Dragon and the ATOS. Class 2 pilots didn't want to compete against ultralight sailplanes like the Carbon Dragon, and we have Class 4.
Class 1 didn't want to compete with aerodynamic controls, and the ATOS pilots didn't want to compete against gliders that were easier to put fairings on. Thus we have Class 5.

My suspicion is that, should effective landing flaps become a thing, gliders will simply have less area, with a concomitant increase in aspect ratio. Landing speed will remain about the same, to gain additional top speed.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Freedom 190 or Falcon 225 for first hang glider?

9 June, 2017 - 18:04
Author: DMarley
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:04 am (GMT -8)

Regarding one or two point bridles on single-surface gliders, I've been informed from multiple sources that the gliders (SS) have very heavy pitch pressure with single-point ('pro-tow' if you like) while aerotowing, but do fine while surface towing. Some pilots have tried a single point on a SS and reported that they were exhausted by the time they released from the tug.
When new to aerotowing a double surface, it has been suggested that the pilot uses a two-point bridle, then progress to the one-point bridle if the pilot chooses.

The rumors about LMFP requiring a student to purchase equipment before receiving instruction are completely untrue. LMFP provide ALL the equipment that a student will need up until after at least five successful flights off the mountain launch. It's most likely that these rumors are started by competing instructors and schools, or just those who enjoy running off their mouths attempting to sound knowledgeable and sway a potential student away from LMFP.
Just as any other flight park, LMFP ain't perfect, but it's great place to learn to fly HG. A new student has TONS of opportunity to learn from multiple instructors as well as many, many other experienced pilots that hang around talking about flying at this park. If a student has a personality or learning block problem with one instructor, he/she can always turn to another instructor. You'll never get that kind of total immersion and experience at a small, one- or two-man HG school.
One of the best things about LMFP is that on flyable days there are always multiple pilots launching and landing. Lots can be learned just by observation and eavesdropping, and LMFP is full of opportunities to learn. It is truly a flying resort. And I'm not prejudiced at all.

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

9 June, 2017 - 17:08
Author: red
Subject: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:08 am (GMT -8)

TjW wrote: NMERider wrote: Flaps and spoilers would disqualify a flex wing for competition but would be great for recreational X/C flying which is right up my alley. I think you're wrong on that. FAI rules for Class 1 gliders:
Quote: Class 1: Hang gliders having a rigid primary structure with pilot weight-shift as the sole method of control, and which are able to demonstrate consistent ability to safely take-off and land in nil-wind conditions. Subsidiary controls affecting trim and/or drag are permitted, but only if they operate symmetrically. Campers,

WHO CARES? Those stupid rules have held back HG development for more than thirty years,
and 'way it's past time to ditch that baggage. Nobody ever complains when a PG pulls a turn handle!
Why don't we limit the PG pilots to harness-shift controls?

COMPETITION SUCKS! I have no need to buy any glider that "conforms" to anybody's sacred, useless rules.
I fly for FUN. If the glider turns with power steering, and stops (flares) with power brakes, then that's just great!
If the glider can be controlled by weight shift also, in case something fails, that's fine too.

When everybody who shows up at a HG comp has power steering, I have a sneaking suspicion that suddenly,
those useless rules will CHANGE.
_________________
Cheers,
........Red.........................
Pssst! New pilot? Free advice, maybe worth the price,
http://www.xmission.com/~red/
H4, Moyes X2, Falcon Tandem, HES Tracer, Quantum 'chute

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

9 June, 2017 - 16:41
Author: TjW
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:41 am (GMT -8)

NMERider wrote:
Flaps and spoilers would disqualify a flex wing for competition but would be great for recreational X/C flying which is right up my alley.


I think you're wrong on that.
FAI rules for Class 1 gliders:
Quote: Class 1: Hang gliders having a rigid primary structure with pilot weight-shift as the sole method of control, and which are able to demonstrate consistent ability to safely take-off and land in nil-wind conditions. Subsidiary controls affecting trim and/or drag are permitted, but only if they operate symmetrically.
(My bolding)
You couldn't operate them differentially, but I read this as explicitly allowing landing flaps. Also, a controllable elevator to trim out bar pressure would seem to be allowed

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

9 June, 2017 - 16:28
Author: TjW
Subject: Re: Truth is somewhere out there
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:28 am (GMT -8)

winDfried wrote: Flaps are already out there:
Just contact Tomas Pellicci, and he will offer You his Spirit L with flaps.
[/url]
A nice glider.
More images and german description in this Article:
http://ikaruspellicci.de/img/Bericht_Markus_Neurauter.pdf
Think forward, W.

Yes, and the Sensor 610F had flaps, ( or at least a method of increasing camber in the TE). But those are plain flaps, not split flaps.

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

9 June, 2017 - 16:06
Author: NMERider
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:06 am (GMT -8)

TjW wrote: ....Well, that's deployable, but not really what I'd call controllable. Flaps and spoilers can be modulated. Also, the drogue does nothing to reduce the stall speed. Sailplanes used to use droques. Flaps and spoilers are better.
Flaps and spoilers would disqualify a flex wing for competition but would be great for recreational X/C flying which is right up my alley.
The drogue chute is in fact very controllable and once deployed can be reduced, disabled or even retracted.
Every new mechanical item attached to a hang glider is one more thing to fail and likely cause a crash.
However, I have been interested in testing a limp set of non-overlapping split flaps that can be pulled down until perpendicular to the under-surface. A VG rope can be installed in the opposite downtube. I think the flap fabric can be attached via zipper that's sewn to the under-surface. If the flaps aren't needed then don't zip them on in the first place. They are for landings and steep descents and not intended for thermalling.
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/glidela

Hang gliding general :: RE: Freedom 190 or Falcon 225 for first hang glider?

9 June, 2017 - 15:09
Author: brian scharp
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:09 am (GMT -8)

DAVE 858 wrote: Ive towed twice with the Freedom 190. The glider was rigged with attachments at the tow loops on the harness & another up near the keel king post junction. I found it was very difficult to keep the glider pulled in. However, I do not know if this was due to the design of the glider or how it was rigged. There is another method of towing in which the only attachment points are to the harness. I have not tried this method. From what I understand it is a more advanced method of towing.
It's my understanding that the upper attachment - two point - can be used to help trim the glider. In your example, moving the attachment on the keel closer to the nose would trim it faster, requiring you to pull in less. One point (harness only) - may pull you further forward, but that is not equivalent with you pulling yourself forward or using the bridle to trim the glider.
Bar position obtainable with two point.

A more typical bar position for one point.


https://www.willswing.com/aerotow-release-attachment-points-for-wills-wing-gliders/

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

9 June, 2017 - 14:54
Author: TjW
Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:54 am (GMT -8)

NMERider wrote: TjW wrote: ....So I don't know. It would be nice if it worked as a controllable way of decreasing stall and increasing drag for landing. But there might be other issues. Or pilots could buy themselves a nice shiny new 6-panel drogue chute from Dustin and be able to land in much tight spaces or just get down quicker.
http://www.rotorharness.com/price-list.html
FFE 60 inch drogue chute w/swivel..................................................130
It's an already established device that works well when used correctly.

Link


Well, that's deployable, but not really what I'd call controllable. Flaps and spoilers can be modulated. Also, the drogue does nothing to reduce the stall speed.
Sailplanes used to use droques. Flaps and spoilers are better.

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

9 June, 2017 - 03:44
Author: Mark Arnold
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:44 pm (GMT -8)

Go here — http://www.hanggliding.cz/

I contacted them once but Karel hadn't shipped his gliders to the US.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Freedom 190 or Falcon 225 for first hang glider?

9 June, 2017 - 03:02
Author: DAVE 858
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:02 pm (GMT -8)

Ive towed twice with the Freedom 190. The glider was rigged with attachments at the tow loops on the harness & another up near the keel king post junction. I found it was very difficult to keep the glider pulled in. However, I do not know if this was due to the design of the glider or how it was rigged. There is another method of towing in which the only attachment points are to the harness. I have not tried this method. From what I understand it is a more advanced method of towing.

Hang gliding general :: Flymaster Vario LS

9 June, 2017 - 02:06
Author: dbotos
Subject: Flymaster Vario LS
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:06 pm (GMT -8)

Anyone seen or gotten to play with one of these in person?

https://www.flymasterusa.com/instruments/vario-ls/#

I'm probably a little ways off from needing a vario myself, but saw this in the USHPA mag and was curious.

I have a Garmin 76 CSx GPS that I got before I ever started flying. Would that and this vario possibly make a good combo? How do you sync vario and GPS data from separate instruments? Just set the clocks really close? Or some other trick?

Thanks,
David

Hang gliding general :: RE: Freedom 190 or Falcon 225 for first hang glider?

9 June, 2017 - 00:26
Author: skysurfer
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:26 pm (GMT -8)

DMarley wrote: They have the big Wills Wing Alpha 210 that should be good for your weight (150-280 lbs hook-in weight).

I would be very surprised to hear that LMFP has asked you to purchase your own equipment before your lessons. Are you still thinking of training at LMFP?


I was at Lookout when the alpha showed up at the hill and one of the first new students to fly it but being new and I didn't spend alot of time on it so can't give a fair assessment (that was also about 4 years ago). Ended up with a Falcon 195 and have had it on the mountain, towed and at the beach. It's still my go to.

In some circles it seems to be the big joke that going to Lookout you'll have a glider, harness, helmet and chute before you ever get to the hill. It wasn't my experience but somehow that rumor got started.
Austin
_________________
PARACHUTE---Der Stringencotten Das Est Usen To Floaten Down To Earthen Ven Der Fliegenwagen Est Kaputen

Freeflight...Well it's not free but it's cheaper than expensive.