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Updated: 13 weeks 3 days ago

Hang gliding general :: RE: Freedom 190 or Falcon 225 for first hang glider?

8 June, 2017 - 23:48
Author: waltspoint
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:48 pm (GMT -8)

I haven't done aerotow with my Freedom, but on a winch it tows fine in my opinion. I have mine set to the middle crossbar tightness, so perhaps at the loose setting it wanders more. I hook in about 220 on a 170.

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

8 June, 2017 - 21:08
Author: Mellowmoods
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:08 pm (GMT -8)

I like this! Would love to see how functional it would actually be.
_________________
H-4
Vision MK4
Ultrasport 166
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Freedom 190 or Falcon 225 for first hang glider?

8 June, 2017 - 20:13
Author: DMarley
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:13 pm (GMT -8)

I have heard from several sources that a Falcon is one of the easiest and best gliders to learn and advance in aerotowing. I've also been told that the Freedom is not so nice on aerotow. A few other newer pilots to aerotowing who flew the Horizons also warned me off of the NW Horizon for that same reasoning, nearly all wishing they had a Falcon for aerotowing.

Anybody have opinions in this regard?

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

8 June, 2017 - 19:46
Author: DMarley
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:46 am (GMT -8)

http://translate.google.cz/translate?hl=cs&sl=cs&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hanggliding.cz%2Fvyroba%2Fkluzaky%2Frelief%2F

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiDPK0qp0c4

I like it. But I wonder how it compares with a drogue as far as drag is concerned. Perhaps easier handling. More easily damaged. Attachment and alignment would be much more crucial. I always thought that a flying wing HG would perform better with an articulating and controllable horizontal stab. It may help prevent tucks and the tumbles if sized correctly.

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

8 June, 2017 - 19:43
Author: Mark Arnold
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:43 am (GMT -8)

I should have started with this. In flight it is a normal tail by Quasar.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Freedom 190 or Falcon 225 for first hang glider?

8 June, 2017 - 19:41
Author: DAVE 858
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:41 am (GMT -8)

I think the glide performance between a freedom & equally sized falcon is negligible difference. They are both good wings & set up fast & fly well.

I don't know if one is more forgivable than the other. Im not even sure what the word forgivable means when it comes to flying. I assume it means that the glider is less likely to kill you if you make some mistake. So here's a question, why would you fly with a wing that allows you to continue to make mistakes & get away with it due to its alleged forgivableness?

Blowing your launch or stalling in a turn & crashing are going to have serious consequences no matter what glider you are flying. The speed at which these situations happen & develop are increased in higher performing gliders, which is why we don't recommend a T2C as first glider.

The freedom vs the falcon is apples & oranges & really comes down to personal preference. I fly a Freedom 190. I keep it for glass off & the dunes at the coast. A falcon is a bit lighter, but as far as performance or one glider being more forgiving than the other, its a bunch of hogwash. The differences are so subtle its barely noticeable.

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

8 June, 2017 - 19:20
Author: Mark Arnold
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:20 am (GMT -8)

On final by Quasar...

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

8 June, 2017 - 19:14
Author: Mark Arnold
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:14 am (GMT -8)

Or this by Quasar...[/img]

Hang gliding general :: RE: Rotor pod harness owners - I've got a question for you

8 June, 2017 - 18:36
Author: blindrodie
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:36 am (GMT -8)

Go with the Flylite...

I also have a CG1000 (older version) and a HES Tracer.


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Kansas City Hang Glider Supplies
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H.E.S. Q330
WW U2 145
FlyTec 6015
CG 1000
Tracer Plus
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Hang gliding general :: RE: Freedom 190 or Falcon 225 for first hang glider?

8 June, 2017 - 18:12
Author: waltspoint
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:12 am (GMT -8)

First off, use the school's training glider as long as reasonably possible. At least until you're a solid H1.

I'm not so familiar with the Falcon 225 & Freedom 190, but I've owned a Falcon 195 and Freedom 170 (and a lot of other gliders). IMHO Falcon 195 is a better first glider than a Freedom 170, because it is lighter, more forgiving during launch & landing. Its only drawback is that the Freedom handles wind a bit better, but as a new pilot you won't be flying on windy days for a while.

If you become a solid H2 with the school equipment, then the Freedom is worth considering. It's a matter of taste whether you want a more care-free glider or a tad more performance. Care-free means safety and less fear, performance means a greater range of flying conditions and flying sites.

For an experienced pilot wanting a single surface glider, I like the Freedom. A bit crisper handling, a bit better glide/penetration/sink, but still feels like a single-surface. Other flyers might prefer the Falcon for its lack of demandingness, if that's a word. So personal goals and preferences.

I don't hate the Freedom, I like mine a lot. But it is sort of a design for a niche. If one is an H3 stepping up from a Falcon and planning to own just one glider, then a Sport2 will give you more in most flying conditions. As someone with a performance glider as well, having the Freedom is a nice spare glider. A confident and assertive H2 can also make good use of a Freedom.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Rotor pod harness owners - I've got a question for you

8 June, 2017 - 16:00
Author: rjakobsson
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:00 am (GMT -8)

I have mentors and clubs around me.
They're not considering the Rotor to be a too difficult harness for me, and that's how the offer came to me. However, I've got enough money to spend on a FlyLite and would rather get a good fitting and more beginner friendly harness.

My main interest is to do dune gooning and low flying. So being able to get my legs out of the harness quickly seems like a good idea to me, which seems to be one of the benefits of the cocoon.
Does that make sense?

I belong to a club and get training through them so I'm not on a self-teaching path. Thanks for asking all of these questions and for replying!

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

8 June, 2017 - 15:57
Author: DMarley
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:57 am (GMT -8)

These are really not split flaps, but appear to be small plain flaps. According to the article (as much as I could read) they only deflect 25 deg., if that. It would appear that the horizontal stabilizer is rigged to be able to be deflected and controlled while flaring.
I can't see these plain flaps creating much drag at all, especially when compared to a good drogue chute. Nice idea though!
I'm bettin' a Krueger-style 'flap' would create a good amount of drag and higher Cl for low-speed control. They've been used on all sorts of swept wing aircraft. Attachment and deployment control on an HG might be a problem.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Freedom 190 or Falcon 225 for first hang glider?

8 June, 2017 - 15:48
Author: DAVE 858
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:48 am (GMT -8)

Why not a Falcon 195?

Hang gliding general :: RE: Freedom 190 or Falcon 225 for first hang glider?

8 June, 2017 - 15:43
Author: Carl
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:43 am (GMT -8)

Mikey
I waited until it was suggested to get my glider,which allows plenty of time to research what's available for new pilots Hang 2
I found that in the want ads there's an abundance of WW falcons for sale and any Freedoms would sell immediately
What I heard is that Freedom owners will almost never want to part with that glider,to me that meant something

Airthug how long did you fly yours before you became a Freedom hater?

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

8 June, 2017 - 15:25
Author: blindrodie
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:25 am (GMT -8)

Sweet...

Wish I could read German!


_________________
"Tow me up. I'll find my way down"

Kansas City Hang Glider Supplies
Guggenmos E7
H.E.S. Q330
WW U2 145
FlyTec 6015
CG 1000
Tracer Plus
Organ Donor

Hang gliding general :: RE: Rotor pod harness owners - I've got a question for you

8 June, 2017 - 12:55
Author: zamuro
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:55 am (GMT -8)

Taking about user/friendliness during take-off and landing I would say that IMHO pod type harnesses are much better than cocoons*. I don't have a Rotor but a Raymond harness (CG1000 like) which used to be considered a race harness. Much better in any respect (except size & weight) than any cocoon I had. The harness has to fit though.

*The easiest of all would be the knee-hanger for flights of 15min or less after that they become really uncomfortable.

The camp fire :: RE: Test pilot wanted for ultra-lightweight harness

8 June, 2017 - 12:28
Author: philderbeast
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:28 am (GMT -8)

You can feel secure with the new hook line of harness because we've got your back.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Sail Craft Questions

8 June, 2017 - 12:20
Author: skysurfer
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:20 am (GMT -8)

Here is a basic wing plan view. The most obvious "feature" is the extended root chord, which is the point of the exercise. Chasing after good low speed response by keeping the loading toward the center, not ideal for high speed high performance flying but that's not the intent.
Austin
_________________
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Freeflight...Well it's not free but it's cheaper than expensive.

Hang gliding general :: RE: Rotor pod harness owners - I've got a question for you

8 June, 2017 - 12:14
Author: DMarley
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:14 am (GMT -8)

rjakobsson wrote:

Yes I'm a beginner. I'll return this and order that FlyLite 3 instead, as planned before this offer showed up. Thanks for the feedback!

A cocoon harness can have it's own disadvantages for a beginner as well. Depending upon the amount of your flying time and learning progression, most pilots would recommend a simple front-opening pod harness.

Do you belong to an HG club and do you have a mentor?
New pilots sometimes do not realize that a mentor and a club can be very important to the shaping and training of the new pilot's skills as well as providing guidance to proper equipment requirements. Clubs and mentors can also help the new pilot find good deals on slightly used equipment.

I would not purchase new equipment as a new pilot. It sounds cool to have all the equipment right away, but without enough training, you really don't understand what your needs will be once you've some skill under your belt.

Earn your H-2 rating first, then decide on equipment. Rent your equipment first if you can. If your instructor says you must have equipment up front, then have him/her decide / suggest what you can handle properly. Most good HG schools provide all the equipment that you will need to get to your H-2 rating.

Don't go down the self-teaching road. It's way too expensive to your health and longevity, not to mention your wallet. Get good professional instruction and guidance. If not, find a well-respected mentor to guide you.

Hang gliding general :: RE: SPLIT-FLAPS YES, OR NO?

8 June, 2017 - 09:56
Author: winDfried
Subject: Truth is somewhere out there
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:56 am (GMT -8)

Flaps are already out there:
Just contact Tomas Pellicci, and he will offer You his Spirit L with flaps.
[/url]
A nice glider.
More images and german description in this Article:
http://ikaruspellicci.de/img/Bericht_Markus_Neurauter.pdf
Think forward, W.